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|The Armorial Bearings of Peter
The Visitations of Chester of 1613
record the armorial bearings
of Dodge of Stockport:
trick).—Barry of six Or
and Sable, on a pale Gules a woman’s dugg or breast distilling drops
of milk Argent.
guardant Sable, tufted and collared Or.
My research into the
these arms lead me to a document which, to me, did not seem to be all
it purported to be:
Coldingham did not
become a barony
until 1638 and I had not before come across a Guyen King of Arms so I
asked the participants of the Heraldry Society of Scotland forum for
|"To all Men loving
Nobleness, Virtue and Chivalry: and to all Ladies, and Maidens of
honor, of honest deportment and Gentilesse, and to each of them:
Hedingley, called Guyen King of Arms: Greeting in Peace and Good Speed.
Above all, that which appertains to the honorable office of a Herald is
first; to record the good fame and renown of all honest and virtuous
persons. SO, likewise it is suitable and fit, to Give and set in order
to such persons, Ensigns and Arms of honor; so, that their noble an
valiant deeds of arms, may be preserved in perpetual remembrance. And
therefore having regard to the loyal and valiant service of Peter
Dodge, a native of the town of Stopworth, in the County of Chester,
Gentlemen: which he has done and performed to my most dear and
Sovereign Lord, by the Grace of God, King of England, Lord of Ireland,
Duke of Guyen, as well in several battles against his great enemy and
rebel, Baliol, King of Scotland and Vassal of England: as likewise at
the sieges of Berwick and Dunbar: there, where, in his duty and valiant
courage, he was conspicuous for the advancement of his renown and the
good content of my said Sovereign Lord, who, in recompense of his said
service and by his Special Grace, Gave to Him, and to his Heirs
forever, the Lordship of Podenhughe, with the Barony of Coldingham in
the Kingdom of Scotland. "I have thought it therefore convenient in the
performance of my office, to Grant him arms accordingly, and specially
for two reasons: the one for having valiantly served toward the King's
peace and the public good, the other, that his heirs and successors, by
the remembrance of his honor and valor, may be encouraged to follow
him, always in like virtue and noble conduct. And for which cause: Know
Ye: That I, the aforesaid Guyen, have Given and Granted to the said
Peter Dodge, that from henceforth he may carry his shield: 'Barry of
Six: Or and Sable: on a Pale'gules, a Woman's Breast Gouttant: which
arms appear, here in view depicted. I, Guyen King of arms, have Given
and Confirmed to the said Peter Dodge and to his heirs forever, to have
enjoy and use the same: and in them to be adorned and clothed, for the
advancement of their honor, as well in all Triumphs, Jousts,
Tournaments, and deeds of Arms, as also in Martial matters and
enterprises, that may be requisite in peace or in war, in all places
and at all times, according to their pleasure, without the impeachment
of any person or persons."
testimony of which I have here Subjoined my seal. Given the 8th day of
April, the Thirty Forth year of the reign of our said Sovereign Lord,
Edward, Son of King Henry; after the Conquest, the First of that name."
(Translated from the Norman French, in which language the original
patent was written.)
"Sir Payne Roet, father in law of Geoffrey
Chaucer (and of course also father of Katherine Swynford) was Guienne
King of Arms so the post existed in the late 14th century. According to
Fox Davies (Art of Heraldry p 16) the post varied between that of
herald and King of Arms and was extant (though probably not
continually) possibly from the time of Edward I to Edward IV.
The arms seem to be the
(in)famous canting arms of the Dodges details of which also appear in
Fox Davies (Art of Heraldry pp 120, 145).
Fox Davies also notes
Heraldry p 394) :
"There was a certain
borne by the Dodge family, which, if it be correct, dates from the 34th
year of Edward I, but whether this be authentic it is impossible to
say. Most people consider the alleged deed of grant a forgery, and if
this be so, the arms only exist by right of subsequent record and the
question of augmentation rests upon tradition. The curious charge of a
woman's breast distilling drops of milk to typify the nourishment
afforded to the king's army is at any rate most interesting."
Further on in The Art of
460) concerning ancient grants.
"Dallaway in his
Enquiries," certainly mentions a grant long before the incorporation of
the College. It is alleged to be by James Heddingley, Guyen King of
Arms, to Peter Dodge, Gentleman, and to be dated the 8th day of April
in the 34th year of "Edward le premier;" but although this is in a
collection made by Glover, it is unlikely to be genuine. Documents
written in the name of a sovereign who has had no predecessor of the
same name do not usually describe him as "the first". Not only so, but
it is stated by Austen that Guyen King of Arms was not created till the
time of Henry VI."
Given that the Art of
Heraldry was a
multi-authored work there are some minor differences there. The article
on heralds (p 16) was written by Fox Davies himself, those on the human
figure (p 120) and beasts (p 145) are not directly signed but were
probably his work also. The chapter on Augmentations (p 394) is Fox
Davies work whilst that on early grants (p 460) is part of the article
on early Scottish sources by Lord Lyon Balfour Paul.
It would appear that the
fake "grant" has been around since the time of Glover (late 1500s)"
"I don't feel that the
point about kings
not usually being named "the first" is a strong one: Edward is not
actually described as "Edward I" but rather in the translation from the
Norman French (which at that period is likely to be very literal) as
"after the conquest the first of that name ". The Normans had swept
away the Anglo-Saxons including of course Edward the Confessor; an
Edward following after him for obvious reasons was not going to call
himself Edward II !! Forgers were usually smart enough to copy the form
of genuine documents and then slip in the little forged bits...... One
could compare other documents of the same period, but I wouldn't mind
betting that that bit is genuine!
What usually gives away forgers are the results of forensic examination
revealing quality of paper or type & composition of ink for
Alex Maxwell Findlater:
"Just to confirm a couple of points, yes Edward I was always
called “Edward the First since the Conquest” in charters etc. Otherwise
there might have been confusion with earlier Edwards. Remember that the
Normans claimed to be the heirs of Edward the Confessor, who being
childless was said to have sent Harold over to convey the promise of
the inheritance. Harold certainly went on an embassy to Duke William,
whether to offer the kingdom it is impossible to say as there is no
record. It is however perhaps given the lie by the summoning back from
exile of the Atheling and his sister Margaret, later Queen of Canmore,
Coldingham was a very rich priory, a daughter house of Durham and also
dedicated to St Cuthbert. It is unlikely therefore that it was granted
away by Edward I. At all events, it is not in the list at the back of
GWS Barrow’s Robert Bruce, which has the Scottish lands petitioned for
by the conquering English knights etc.
Guienne was synonymous with Aquitaine, and Aquitaine came to England
with Eleanor, the wife of Henry II. She was the daughter and coheiress
of William Duke of Aquitaine. So that the King was Duke of Guienne is
According to Burke’s General Armory, the Dodge family comes from
Slopworth, Co Chester as well as Kent and Suffolk. There the arms have
on the pale an eye argent weeping and dropping or. I had looked to see
if there was a reference to a visitation, but I found instead a curious
adjustment of an immodest mediaeval charge to better please Victorian
It is certainly a charming fake, if fake it is."
|Charles Ross wrote:
|I don't feel that the point about
usually being named "the first" is a strong one: Edward is not actually
described as "Edward I" but rather in the translation from the Norman
French (which at that period is likely to be very literal) as "after
the conquest the first of that name "....... One could compare other
documents of the same period, but I wouldn't mind betting that that bit
What usually gives away forgers are the results of forensic examination
revealing quality of paper or type & composition of ink for example.
I world agree with the
Balfour Paul's point about "le premier" is slight evidence on which to
cast aside the document. However, we can only speculate as we don't
have the original or absent it a diplomatic copy. There are however,
other ways to determine where the document is on the line from bad
forgery through good forgery to genuine without analysis of the
England had the
disadvantage of being ruled in a quite centralised and legalistic
manner from an early age and Edward I was one of the most legalistic of
kings. From other sources we should be able to find out whether James
Heddingley was in royal service and maybe if he was Guyen King of Arms.
If he cannot be traced that is a negative point, if he can a positive.
Can Peter Dodge be traced, either in Cheshire or the borders? Can any
Dodges be traced with an interest in the Scots borders (perhaps as
followers of Edward Balliol)? If they are missing in the records then
that is again a point against the validity of the document.
|I had thought, having read your
perhaps the grant was forged (if it is a forgery) for the purposes of
presenting proof of arms at the Visitations but haven't come across
them in the Visitations of Cheshire
I'm not sure of Robert
in all this. I know that he made collections of early heraldic
documents e.g. the eponymous "Glover's Roll" and was a long time herald
being Portcullis Pursuivant (1568-1571) Somerset Herald (1570-1588). He
was also responsible for various visitations including those of
Cheshire in 1566 and 1580 (Harleian Soc Vol 18 ).
Absent (so far) anything
otherwise (I have yet to look) I'd also incline to the view that the
document was likely to have been hatched up for one of his visitations.
his History of the County Palatine of Chester has this to say of Dodge:
|A family named Dodge (one of whom
occurs in the
annexed pegigree*), held a small property in Offerton in the reign of
Elizabeth, and were of Holiday Hill, in the same township, in the
middle of the last century. Dodge Fold is the name of a hamlet in
Offerton, having acquired its name from some yeomen of the family. They
are mentioned here chiefly on account of a very early and uncommon
grant of a coat, which Guillim in his heraldry gives as “Barry of six
pieces Or and Sable, over all a pale Gules charged with a woman’s dug
distilling drops of milk proper, “granted to Peter Dogge, or Dodge, for
his services in divers battles and sieges, Ap. 8 Edw. I. Guillim’s
authority is very doubtfull, or the date should rather be 34 Edw. III.
The family is frequently met with in Stockport documents, and they held
respectable positions originally in that town, ubder the name of Dogge
* [my asterisk] the
referred to is that of Winnington of Offerton. A daughter of Winnington
of Offerton married Oliver Dodge, of Stockport (living 1553).
I now find – Contra to
post that the arms are indeed recorded in the Visitations of 1613:
Dodge of Stockport:
ARMS (in trick).—Barry
of six Or and
Sable, on a pale Gules a woman’s
dugg or breast
distilling drops of
CREST.—A demi sea-dog
guardant Sable, tufted and collared Or.
So, was the document
forged to be
used as proof at the Visitations?
James, I am with you on
this one, I
also think it was “hatched up” for the Visitation of 1613.
|So, was the document forged to be
used as proof
at the Visitations?
James, I am with you on this one, I also think it was “hatched up” for
the Visitation of 1613.
I'd put the document
1613. If I read Balfour Paul's piece in Fox Davies correctly, a record
of the "grant" was in the collection of Robert Glover, Somerset Herald.
That fits given his underaking the Cheshire Visitations of 1566 and
1580. However, I have found on the web the following account of him,
taken from "Glover Memorials & Genealogies" by Anna Glover 1867
|According to a survey made in the
Counties, the name Glover is recorded as follows:
County of Berkshire: Johannies Glover, Sheriff, in the 12th year of
Henry VI, AD 1433. Buckinghamshire: John Glover of Kimball;
Bedfordshire: Robert Glover of Monceter, Gentleman, martyred at
Coventry, September 5th, 1555 Middlesex: William Glover, Sheriff in the
time of Queen Elizabeth, London, Middlesex-Kent, about l558. Kent:
Robert Glover, Somerset Herald, son of Thomas and Mildred, was born at
Ashford, Kent, according to the epitaph on his monument. He died, not
forty-six years of age, Anno 1588 and was buried without Cripplegate,
London, St. Giles, on the south wall of the Choir......
Cripplegate Ward. “To Robert Glover, alias the Somerset Herald,
celebrated as a powerful defender of the are of Heraldry and
Antiquarian Truth. From a thorough examination of his old writings, a
man of great honor an benignity, of a noble nature and indefatigable
labor; of easy manners, living honestly and uprightly before his
successors. This sad monument was erected by a loving Nephew, Thomas
Milles, to his most beloved maternal uncle." “This Robert was born in
Asford, in Kent, a market town, of free parents, was liberally educated
and became eminently learned in many things, but was particularly well
versed and skilful in Heraldry. He had only one brother, William, from
Thomas and Mildred, and also five sisters. He left five surviving
children by his wife Elizabeth Flowers, viz., three sons and two
daughters. Robert Glover dying as he had lived, lived as if he was
about to die. His life closed with death, and he departed piously and
calmly united in Christ.”
The whole of this can be
Interestingly, given the
Robert Glover's wife, William Flower is listed as Chester Herald
1545-1562 and as Norroy 1562-1588 in a list of Elizabethan heralds at http://renaissance.dm.net/heraldry/officers.html
Hunter of Montlaw:
the issues raised in this thread is the authenticity of this Guyen King
of Arms, I reviewed Walter H. Godfrey, Sir Anthony Wagner and H.
Stanford London's "The College of Arms,
Queen Victoria Street, Being the Sixteenth and Final Mongraph of the
London Survey Committee...with a complete list
of the Officers of Arms
(1963). This volume discusses Guyenne and Aquitaine King of Arms on
page 261, and has this to say about Jaques Hedingley:
|1. Jaques Hedingley
? Guyenne, King, c. 1306
16 December 1546, Hawley, Clarenceux, confirmed a pat. of arms alleged
to have been made 8 April, 34 Ed. I (1306) to Peter Dodge, of Stopford,
co. Chester, by 'Jaques Hedingley dict Guyen Roy darmes'. Hedingley is
otherwise unknown and the authenticity of the grant is suspect.
([Heraldry and Genealogist], I, 514.
bend . . .
& . . . with 2 pales . . . in chief.
Based on this, it seems
that the 1613 visitation entry was created from whole cloth. Now, 1546
may be a different matter.
The arms as recorded in Burke's General Armoury -
an "adjustment of an immodest mediaeval charge
please Victorian morality?"
Dodge (co. Kent, Slopworth, co. Chester, co. Suffolk, and Mannington,
co. Norfolk). Barry of six Or and Sable, over all on a pale Gules an
eye Argent weeping and dropping Or. Crest: A demi seadog Azure,
collared, finned, and purfled Or.
I was ably assisted in the
for this page by James Dempster, Derek Howard, Charles Ross, Alex
Maxwell Findlater and David Hunter of Montlaw, all members of the
Heraldry Society of Scotland. To them my thanks are extended.
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